I don’t know how many of you have seen the link to Kalin’s site, A Drug Dealer’s Blog, but you should check it out some time - he’s got some worthy opinions and information. Kalin and I have been having an ongoing debate on a few different topics, and I’ve gotten to a point where I can’t stand commenting my replies on his blog since they are so long and Kalin’s WordPress setup for whatever reason doesn’t break paragraphs up in the response. Thus, I will post my reply here, and it might not make complete sense to all of you unless you read the beginnings of our debates here, here, and here. Without further ado, here is my latest response:
Here’s first and foremost: No one has the right to kill of a child, period. You don’t have the right to kill your kid because you can’t support her/him at age 2 or 4 or 7, so why at age 0? I do, however, understand that this is my opinion and seen as extreme by a lot of people. If abortion is going to be legal, then there has to be one key, unquestionable freedom: both parents must agree to an abortion before it happens.
I understand that means there would be cases where the father never shows back up. He’s a complete asshole, and he should be punished severely if found, but tragedies happen in life. I’m sorry you have to go through the “great pains of childbearing”, I really do feel bad for you, but you shouldn’t have shagged in the first place if you weren’t prepared for the possibility. This isn’t a sexist view, that’s just how the anatomy works: the woman has more to fear from pregnancy than a man, in general. I’m sorry it works that way, but if it were flipped around, I would demand the same freedom for women…and I feel no more remorse for man-whores who suffer through STDs.
This would need to be incorporated into the consent to sexual activity laws. When a female consents to sex with a male, they are agreeing that they will bear any child resulting from said activity, which can be terminated only by consent of both parties. I don’t see it as the man having to “veto” an abortion. I see it as, no abortions allowed unless both parties agree.
This does cause problems when the guy runs away, but once the baby’s born, the woman can run away just as easily. There’s not a whole lot that can be done about it. Once again it comes down to this: when you commit the act, are you ready for all of the possible consequences? If not, you shouldn’t do it. I don’t think that the media or society in general advocates making an informed decision, I think the attitude is far, far too “if it feels good, do it.”
I don’t think there are many people who have “no real problem with children growing up without families”. It’s just a matter of them choosing their priorities — theirs is to fight for the rights of unborn children, and while they will almost certainly want children to grow up well also, it isn’t their calling. Just like for me, I really would love to see a whole lot of things changed in the U.S. government, and I might blog about those things from time to time, but my real focus in life is legalization of marijuana. I know this example is different in that legalizing marijuana would have no negative consequence, while keeping abortion illegal has the unfortunate consequence of a lot of orphans. My point still stands.
Additionally, I would MUCH rather see children grow up without families or be neglected than not grow up at all. A lot of these children can grow up to do amazing things for society, and their rough childhood can create something. I’m not saying that growing up alone is something we should encourage, we should certainly work to avoid it, but it can have positive effects in cases.
As to your argument about emotional damage caused to the child: almost every friend of mine was an accident. I don’t know if this reflects the nation and world in general or not, but I can say this: my friends aren’t emotionally scarred from it, and neither am I. It tends to be the people who weren’t an accident that sympathize with those who are, as if it was a horrible trauma. It’s not, it doesn’t matter because for the most part (at least in the area and admittedly narrow array of people I have access to) parents love their children, and it doesn’t matter what happened in the past. The same would be the case with “abortion veto.”
By the same token, the child would have every right to be angry at the parent that wanted an abortion, and I would hope that a parent in such a situation would feel TERRIBLE and absolutely LOATHE their former self, because now that the child is grown and you see him living, breathing, reacting to you and the things you say, you realize that all of this could have been stamped out before she/he was as big as your hand.
I think ALL of this is really simply solved: abortion is illegal. Period. You know before you do it that you don’t have an abortion option if something goes wrong with the condom. You know what you MIGHT have to deal with. Just like when you get in a car, you know there is a chance you could be T-Boned and put in the hospital, be paralyzed…there isn’t a way out of that. Childbearing isn’t even remotely that bad,
My comparison was in response to yours: you said that the chance of getting pregnant was like the chance of getting in a car crash and dying. My response is that, no, you are far more likely to get pregnant than to die in a car wreck. My analogy was not stating that you would get pregnant every time…I wasn’t very clear, re-reading back over that, so sorry about that. But you did get at the crux of it with your explanation that there are more pregnancies with less sex than there are crashes with more car driving.
I have heard statistics all over the place about how effective condoms are…never as much as 98% though. But the truth is you can’t put a statistic on that. It really depends, quite frankly, how hard you shag. And the drugs that claim to prevent pregnancy depend on your body working like everyone else’s (or at least the people they tested it on to get their accuracy statistics…that would be an interesting job), but there’s no way to know that for sure.
I’m not sure where they got those statistics you found, because I’ve never heard of those people before. Therefore, their surveys don’t span very far…it’s a VERY small group of people using condoms perfectly, in ideal situations…that doesn’t say ANYTHING about the matter. I like statistics to back things up sometimes, but you have to understand, there’s NO SUCH THING as “statistics” really…they are always based on very small groups. I think this matter is too large to trust to 100 couples who got questioned, out of 300,000 people in America and 6,300,000,000 billion in the world.
Want to talk statistics? Your surveys covered 0.00000016% of the world’s population.. So before you say that 0.02% is small, ponder that one for a moment.
You are correct when it comes to only having limited precautions behind the wheel. You’re completely correct, I think the only thing you can do is to not get in in the first place. *wink*
Here’s why you should wait for marriage for sex: First, the sex actually means something, rather than just physical pleasure. It means a lot more to give your new husband or wife a brand new pair of shoes than a pair of shoes that’s been worn by the whole football team.
You’re missing the point here. I never said a marriage certificate was important at all. What’s important is the promise that there’s no one else, forever, “until death do us part”. Love has no correlation to sex, other than that you should absolutely love someone before you have sex with them. But that’s not to say you should have sex with everyone you haver love, because I agree it is quite possible to be in love with more than one person in a life time.
In fact that’s exactly what I’m getting at. You have to be careful with sex because it is so possible to love SO many people, yet sex is not for the people you love, it’s for the one person.
And you understand my frustration in talking about people who think that getting married will further their love. This is how I feel about sex. Both marriage and sex are NOT for people to expand their love, or to “make love” (that’s a misnomer if there ever was one). They are for people who already REALLY, REALLY love each other, to the core, not just who they are right at this moment, but who they ARE. They are both sacred.
And, no, I do not see ex-girlfriends and boyfriends as a bad thing, and that is not the problem here at all, nor does it have anything to do with what we’re talking about here. I am actually ADVOCATING ex-boyfriends and girlfriends here…you wait until the right one comes along. The only thing I see a problem with is having had SEX with ex-boyfriends or girlfriends, because they really aren’t your ex-boyfriend or girlfriend anymore. They are your ex-husband or wife in reality. And ex-husband or wife IS a bad thing.
My worry is the opposite of what yours was. I worry that no woman will want me if I AM looking to eventually marry. And I think the idea that marriage isn’t the goal can be dangerous. You never have a family. You never have someone who you can speak with, and who knows your life history, and knows you maybe better than you know yourself. I think that is absolutely vital to a person. Moreover, there have been many philosophers who suggested that the primary goal in a person’s life, believe it or not, is to create a child. If you’re hopping from person to person, using as many birth control items as you can, you might never get that. That means that when you die, your line is done. Your DNA is wiped from the planet. Forever. It’s quite tragic.
On most of the details I agree with you. You shouldn’t marry someone for any reason other than that you absolutely love their soul with all of yours. And that is the person that your virginity was made for. Divorce is not something that occurs when people go into a marriage with that mindset. As for divorce showing the world that you don’t really know what you want, well, I think that’s an ironic statement.